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	<title>Comments on: Proud Mary</title>
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	<link>http://www.pinkpeppers.com/2009/11/22/proud-mary/</link>
	<description>How to be in 5 places at once</description>
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		<title>By: Terri</title>
		<link>http://www.pinkpeppers.com/2009/11/22/proud-mary/comment-page-1/#comment-1399</link>
		<dc:creator>Terri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You don&#039;t think so, Beth?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You don&#8217;t think so, Beth?</p>
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		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://www.pinkpeppers.com/2009/11/22/proud-mary/comment-page-1/#comment-1398</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>introverted? REALYY?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>introverted? REALYY?!</p>
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		<title>By: Terri</title>
		<link>http://www.pinkpeppers.com/2009/11/22/proud-mary/comment-page-1/#comment-1393</link>
		<dc:creator>Terri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 03:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I just want to put a plug in here for Lisa&#039;s paper which she has a link to in her comment.
A few quotes that crystalized things for me:

&quot;The pastoral has been exalted over the urban since our exile from Eden.&quot;
Yes, there is this idea that country and homespun is more wholesome and more godly than urban or city.

The Old Testament cities were wicked not because they were cities instead of gardens but rather because they were unwilling to &quot;&#039;patiently grow a city out of a garden&#039; but sought to reap of the harvest without sowing godly dominion&quot;
Babylon and the city of Enoch, and the city of Nimrod seek to make a name for themselves not a city of God.

Progression from a garden to a city for God&#039;s glory is critical.

&quot;Jerusalem is distinctly different from Enoch and Babel.  It looks different from the Garden, but only because the Lord has matured and developed the way in which a civilization is to be established.&quot;

&quot;As His people, we are to build communities where the Lord shall dwell among His people, the church.&quot;

I knew I loved the city, I knew it is a sinful place, I knew that pastoral living wasn&#039;t better than urban, I knew maturity had to take place to make the city work.
Lisa helped clarify my thinking

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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just want to put a plug in here for Lisa&#8217;s paper which she has a link to in her comment.<br />
A few quotes that crystalized things for me:</p>
<p>&#8220;The pastoral has been exalted over the urban since our exile from Eden.&#8221;<br />
Yes, there is this idea that country and homespun is more wholesome and more godly than urban or city.</p>
<p>The Old Testament cities were wicked not because they were cities instead of gardens but rather because they were unwilling to &#8220;&#8216;patiently grow a city out of a garden&#8217; but sought to reap of the harvest without sowing godly dominion&#8221;<br />
Babylon and the city of Enoch, and the city of Nimrod seek to make a name for themselves not a city of God.</p>
<p>Progression from a garden to a city for God&#8217;s glory is critical.</p>
<p>&#8220;Jerusalem is distinctly different from Enoch and Babel.  It looks different from the Garden, but only because the Lord has matured and developed the way in which a civilization is to be established.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;As His people, we are to build communities where the Lord shall dwell among His people, the church.&#8221;</p>
<p>I knew I loved the city, I knew it is a sinful place, I knew that pastoral living wasn&#8217;t better than urban, I knew maturity had to take place to make the city work.<br />
Lisa helped clarify my thinking</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Beyeler</title>
		<link>http://www.pinkpeppers.com/2009/11/22/proud-mary/comment-page-1/#comment-1391</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Beyeler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinkpeppers.com/?p=4527#comment-1391</guid>
		<description>This is one of my favorite topics.  I have found the eschatological progression from garden to garden city to be very interesting as well.  I think it is important to note, however, that when the patriarchs establish new civilizations, they do not simply build a city out of nothing, but cultivate one from the roots of agriculture.  Our ultimate goal should be the city, but, as the first commenter observed, this is a garden city.  I don&#039;t think there is anything wrong with living in the country so long as the goal is to grow and mature ones community into a vibrant city.  

I wrote a paper on this subject, which can be found here:  http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AUW0aqN5SBejZHNyYjlkN18xMmQyc3Zic2Nx&amp;hl=en

Yet Dr. Leithart&#039;s pithy comments on my paper are probably much more valuable:  http://www.leithart.com/2008/12/26/the-city/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is one of my favorite topics.  I have found the eschatological progression from garden to garden city to be very interesting as well.  I think it is important to note, however, that when the patriarchs establish new civilizations, they do not simply build a city out of nothing, but cultivate one from the roots of agriculture.  Our ultimate goal should be the city, but, as the first commenter observed, this is a garden city.  I don&#8217;t think there is anything wrong with living in the country so long as the goal is to grow and mature ones community into a vibrant city.  </p>
<p>I wrote a paper on this subject, which can be found here:  <a href="http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AUW0aqN5SBejZHNyYjlkN18xMmQyc3Zic2Nx&amp;hl=en" rel="nofollow">http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AUW0aqN5SBejZHNyYjlkN18xMmQyc3Zic2Nx&amp;hl=en</a></p>
<p>Yet Dr. Leithart&#8217;s pithy comments on my paper are probably much more valuable:  <a href="http://www.leithart.com/2008/12/26/the-city/" rel="nofollow">http://www.leithart.com/2008/12/26/the-city/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Terri</title>
		<link>http://www.pinkpeppers.com/2009/11/22/proud-mary/comment-page-1/#comment-1390</link>
		<dc:creator>Terri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I know, and also, it is easier to sin without accountability because of the hugeness of a city and the ability to be anonymous.

Living out on your own in the big wide open will give you the same lack of accountability and ability to avoid rubbing shoulders or being involved in anyone&#039;s life.  It can lead to the same selfish end.  But it does remove the temptations that a city has to offer.

It is harder to be involved with anyone else&#039;s life when you live a long way from others though.

Maybe it needs to be community within a city.  Or maybe community in a town.  Or maybe really purposing to be a part of community when you do live way out.

The start in the garden to the ending in the city in the Bible was intriguing.

I am still rolling the whole thing around in my mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know, and also, it is easier to sin without accountability because of the hugeness of a city and the ability to be anonymous.</p>
<p>Living out on your own in the big wide open will give you the same lack of accountability and ability to avoid rubbing shoulders or being involved in anyone&#8217;s life.  It can lead to the same selfish end.  But it does remove the temptations that a city has to offer.</p>
<p>It is harder to be involved with anyone else&#8217;s life when you live a long way from others though.</p>
<p>Maybe it needs to be community within a city.  Or maybe community in a town.  Or maybe really purposing to be a part of community when you do live way out.</p>
<p>The start in the garden to the ending in the city in the Bible was intriguing.</p>
<p>I am still rolling the whole thing around in my mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Caitlin</title>
		<link>http://www.pinkpeppers.com/2009/11/22/proud-mary/comment-page-1/#comment-1386</link>
		<dc:creator>Caitlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 04:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I never knew what he was singing! As a 10 year old I always sang out a slurred, &quot;Loved a good dog and the ditty...&quot;

But as to cities and being selfish... living in a city may cause you to rub shoulders more, on crowded streets and busses, or in your apartment buidling, but it doesn&#039;t mean you actually talk to those nameless faces. Let alone get along with them. I think people have the potential to be MORE selfish in a city, or at least just stay out of everyone&#039;s business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never knew what he was singing! As a 10 year old I always sang out a slurred, &#8220;Loved a good dog and the ditty&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>But as to cities and being selfish&#8230; living in a city may cause you to rub shoulders more, on crowded streets and busses, or in your apartment buidling, but it doesn&#8217;t mean you actually talk to those nameless faces. Let alone get along with them. I think people have the potential to be MORE selfish in a city, or at least just stay out of everyone&#8217;s business.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Zedek</title>
		<link>http://www.pinkpeppers.com/2009/11/22/proud-mary/comment-page-1/#comment-1385</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Zedek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pinkpeppers.com/?p=4527#comment-1385</guid>
		<description>A city, yes. A garden city lined with trees, sparking with gems and flowing water, where you will rest in peace under your own vine and fig tree (1Kg. 4:25; 7; Rev.22). No, really a garden zoo city (Is. 65). You&#039;ll have every sort of pet, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A city, yes. A garden city lined with trees, sparking with gems and flowing water, where you will rest in peace under your own vine and fig tree (1Kg. 4:25; 7; Rev.22). No, really a garden zoo city (Is. 65). You&#8217;ll have every sort of pet, too.</p>
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